Modern Vespa

You're right about that Stickey

I´ve the tall Fabbri , adjusted the height , and am very happy with it.
(1.80m)

Slightly OT based on original question but...

I bought the medium Givi, then added a Laminar Lip. I'm 5'9". The Lip brought the top edge to where I like on motorcycles, blocking vision about 20' out, and stopped the head-on blast.

Problem is, I am still buffeted by air blasting around the Givi's sides, left (boom!), right (bam!), left, so on.

This is exactly the same experience I had on my Shadow with a narrow, triangular shield like the Givi. Everything resolved itself when I bought a big 'old Rifle tombstone. I lost one or two miles per gallon but gained nearly still air.

I took some measurements and realized that I could mount a large conventional tombstone directly to the Givi mounting hardware with a little drilling. Unfortunately, my Rifle's headlamp cutout is exactly where two of the Givi's mounting screws need to go. This has led me on a very frustrating search for a plain, no-holes, no-cutouts piece of curved Lexan, i.e. what I presumed Rifle and National start out with before it becomes a windshield for a specific motorcycle. Nobody seems to sell them. I even contacted a couple of "custom" shops online and was told the same story, the closest thing they have is just a flat (planar) sheet, the curving comes when they work it to fit a particular bike or fairing.

So: does anybody have any ideas on where to find a simple Lexan "egg," no holes, no cutouts?

One that does plexiglas and lexan. They may be able to help you out. Lexan is very formable with proper heat application, which they should be able to do, or they can point you to a plastics fabricator.

If the material is cheap enough, you might buy a blank and try the heat yourself - if you are brave!

[quote="welcha"]One that does plexiglas and lexan. They may be able to help you out. Lexan is very formable with proper heat application, which they should be able to do, or they can point you to a plastics fabricator.

If the material is cheap enough, you might buy a blank and try the heat yourself - if you are brave! :D[/quote]

Oh, I have no doubt I would screw it up :-) There's also another issue - while I would agree the chances of my getting caught is nil, in my state such a homebrew windshield would be illegal (must be DOT rated).

I mentioned I own a 500 - the Givi screen is quite narrow, much more so than the 250/400. The MP3 400 medium Givi seems like it would do a better job of protecting from windblast than the 500, which in hindsight seems designed more for style than function. Still, seems odd that nobody sells a "blank" windscreen - I found a Chinese company that supplies the basic screens wholesale - but the minimum order is 5,000!

I recall someone else on this forum added some wings that were adjustable to theirs, like the lips but on the sides.

[quote="Bohemian"]I recall someone else on this forum added some wings that were adjustable to theirs, like the lips but on the sides.[/quote]

Thanks I'll search for that. Laminar does sell "ears" but they would not accomodate the Givi, they expect a simple, straight (or only slightly curved) side edge. The Givi is anything but (more like an example of protein folding).

Any U.S. windshield specialty folks reading this: I find that Americans driving non-sportsbikes by and large are less tolerant of wind than Europeans (and I suspect on average drive faster), so there is definitely a market for big windshields for these maxiscooters that is not being addressed by European aftermarket suppliers.

Update. I figured out a way to mount my Shadow's windshield on the MP3/500 using the Givi hardware. I had to plug a bunch of preexisting holes with 3/8" nylon plugs (doesn't look as bad as it sounds) but if I purchased a replacement screen I could probably get one with not so many pre-drilled holes. I did have to drill two new holes to move the Givi grommets over to. I'll post pix shortly.

The big big issue is the rake. A 23" wide tombstone on the Givi mount is blasting a wind tunnel right at your face; also at 65mph the handlebars started shaking rather unnervingly, probably due to sporatic Coanda effect. I was able to bend the Givi struts to bring the windshield up to a more motorcycle-like rake. The right way to do this would be to use a heavy vise and a pipe whose ID is just slightly larger than the stut. Having neither, I used a monkey wrench and a lug wrench and mis-bent one strut and had to re-bend it, giving a slightly twisted appearance and nicking the finish (I did cover it with PTFE pipe thread tape first, which helped a bit). I also added extra-long 6mm screws and a pair of 10mm spacers to the strut mounts to bring the windshield even more vertical. This will be clearer when I post pix.

Getting the bottom screw (note not "screws," which is a clue to how I did this) to connect is a challenge because the screw is going in at a significantly different angle than the Givi lower bracket expects. The trick to this is to mount the screen upside down, get the screw part-way in, rotate the screen to upright (taking care not to scratch it) and attach the struts.

Between 25-50mph I get dead calm. Up to 60 is only a slight buffet. At 65-70 I get moderate buffeting but no more than on the Shadow, which at that speed was buzzing and jumping all over anyway. The MP3 is rock steady. With all the open holes, the Shadow windshield was noisy but plugging the holes quieted it down; this morning I was able to make a cell phone call on my half-helmet's Bluetooth at 60mph. Preliminary testing shows 55MPG, half in town and half on the highway.

I should point out that while this has been a major improvement for me, my riding partner has not noticed a big change. She sits much higher than on the Shadow and I guess she is up above the bubble of calm air. She says it was much quieter and calmer on the Shadow at 60mph with the same windshield, and that there is only a small improvement with the Shadow windshield on the MP3 over the original Givi.

One other caution, those "T" fittings that slide over the Givi struts for the top screws to fit into don't take well to repeated removals and reinsertions. I am concerned that I may have started to strip one out and am looking to see if I can order replacements.

PICS PLEEEEEASSSE!!!

[quote="luthorhuss"]PICS PLEEEEEASSSE!!! :shock: :shock:[/quote]

Pictures are coming, but meanwhile here's the basic idea. Because I just moved the top strap down to where the bottom one used to be (to re-use at least some of the many pre-drilled holes), I had no leeway in vertical placement and so the only way to adjust height was thru rake*. This could be done with a "blank" replacement windshield and a couple of thin steel or maybe aluminum straps (and since you'd be drilling all new holes, you could put that strap nearly anywhere you wanted vertically and place the windscreen precisely where you wanted it), but because I was cannabalizing a stock windshield the straps of course already had the holes and were the correct curvature.

*Not quite true. By the time I added spacers to the stem "T"s to reduce the rake enough, the angle of the screen was so far off that of the Givi bracket (the one hidden behind the front facade with the rectangular headlamp) that it would not thread thru. I bent the legs of that bracket to make it a bit more horizontal, which had the unintentional effect of making its screwhole a touch lower (enough so that I had to drill a new hole in the facade a few millimeters below the original facade hole). This made the entire windshield maybe a half-inch lower, so there's a "cheat" way to adjust windshield height independent of rake.

Also - there are actually two brackets in the stock Givi setup. The first goes behind the facade and bridges the framework, yeilding a single screw hole dead center. The second is a circle with two legs coming off of it that screws in from the outside into the aforementioned bridge, and provides two holes for the stock Givi screen to mount to. This second bracket I did not use, running a single screw through the center hole of my now-bottom strap directly into the bridge. Incidentally, whether you are going to try this or simply use the Givi windscreen as-is, here's an important tip: to mount that "bridge" you have to loosen two large Phillips screws on either side of the framework, and wiggle the bridge under them behind their washers. DON'T TAKE THOSE TWO SCREWS ALL THE WAY OUT! The frame piece those screws join are under tension and you'll have a devil of a time getting those screws back in if you completely remove them. Along those lines, here's another hint: if you are attempting to dismantle the bodywork "tupperware" and you are finding resistance, don't start yanking and prying (voice of experience here) - there is almost certainly one more screw remaining to be removed you haven't found yet.

Here is the general appearance. The closeups show the spacers on the "stalks" (which moves the top of the screen forward and, therefore, makes the screen more vertical and somewhat higher). The other shot shows the screw thru the center of the metal strip (which is NOT coming in from the front with a grommet per my drawings, because I don't have a long enough screw yet!), and if you look carefully you'll see it enters a hole I drilled slightly below the original to accomodate the "re-twisted" bracket behind the fascia.

Ironically, the Shadow windshield is actually a bit TOO high, because I'd like to tilt it forward even more vertical - it's 30 degrees right now, while on the Shadow is was 15 degrees. This would involve bending the stalks even further, which I'm not keen on, or adding longer spacers, but then it would block my vision. Right now I can see over the top out for 20-30 feet, just where I like my windshield to be.

You'll notice the huge hole where the Shadow headlight used to be. Lots of air coming thru there at speed, being deflected up by the Piaggio flyscreen. I tried blocking this off by tossing a notebook behind it and jamming in a T-shirt (i.e. high-tech solution). A bit less buffeting and a bit quieter, but before I work on a permanent solution I need to test it with a rider on back, since sometimes introducing air into a wind shadow can actually reduce overall turbulence.

I was wondering if something like the adjustable Windshield brackets for the Suzuki V Strom and Kawasaki Versys could be adapted to the MP3

http://www.madstad.com

YouTube video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0168zh-yWXM&feature=PlayList&p=580B72447347199D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=14



Dave

>I was wondering if something like the adjustable Windshield brackets for the Suzuki V Strom and Kawasaki Versys could be adapted to the MP3


If by "adapted" you mean modified by you to fit an MP3, the answer is no. All the models shown have brackets that are much too high and closer to center than the MP3 flyscreen screw points, which are the only really secure facilities for mounting (I note that as a general rule the MP3s rely on mostly very weak construction a la speedclips and provide a handful of specific strong connection points - see the forum discussion on footpegs for examples). If on the other hand you mean that the manufacturer could adapt the design to be wider and longer and mate to the flyscreen mounting points, it certainly seems possible. I would point out that the screens sold so far are still very small compared to the highway billboard-sized windshield I was looking for, which might for all I know be more than this movable design can handle.

Along those lines, I'm starting to think that it is flat-out impossible to mount a windshield on the MP3 using the Givi mount anywhere near the 10 or 15 degrees that a typical cruiser windblocker mounts at. Disregarding the top-gets-higher as the angle-approaches-vertical fact of trigonometry for a moment, in order to make the screen really vertical would mean extremely long spacers in the stalk "tee"s, which would be very weak due to cantilever, or bending the stalks way way over forward. Back to trigonometry: the further over they bend, the lower on the windshield they will connect, and once you drop below the halfway point there will be more wind pushing above the connection, wanting to blow the windshield off, than pushing below, wanting to keep the windshield on. I'm pretty sure the DMV motorcycle manual lists decapitation by flying windshields as something to avoid. It's no doubt more complicated than that (horizontal chord versus surface area, Bernoulli effect) so I think it would be wise to keep the connection points well above the midpoint. That therefore limits just how vertical the screen can go. You can see from my photos that I'm already pretty close to midpoint, plus the headlight cutout means a sizeable area below that is not contributing to the overall "don't blow off" force.

So I went completely overboard and bent the "stalks" of the Givi mount until they were practically vertical. This way they continue to contact the windshield at the same point I drilled the holes at but with the windscreen much more vertical (I did, in fact, get it to the desired 15 degrees). In retrospect I would have mounted it a bit lower (maybe when I purchase a pristine replacement screen I'll get one a touch shorter) as it partly blocks my vision. On the other hand, this means it is very easy to duck down behind and look thru the screen, but if it's raining I can sit up very straight and see over the top.
EDIT: I fixed the height issue by raising the seat using Awareness's dirt cheap and dead simple seat raiser idea <http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=656761#656761>)

The issue, as I previously alluded to, is that this arrangement is not very strong. I had played with some 1" nylon spacers (the longer the spacer, the more parallel the windshield and the stalks are) but that is now out of the question, much too rickety. I doubt that the threaded "Tees" would be strong enough to be reliable even if perpendicular AND new (they're now neither), and Givi USA informed me that they would not sell me the Tees, thank-you, I have to buy the whole kit again.

I dropped back to the 1/2" spacers you see in the photos above but now the 6mm screws were coming in at an outrageous angle due to the relative slopes of the stalks and the screen and wouldn't thread at all. Time to take drastic action!

Heading over to Lowes, I picked up some 2" x10-24 pan heads and a 10-24 drill and tap. I then got the screen just where I wanted it on the 1/2" spacers, CAREFULLY twisted the screen out of the way making sure not to alter the position of the "Tees," and drilled a pilot hole clean through the stalk. I gradually widened it to the #10 drill, threaded it with the tap and 3-in-1 oil (stopping frequently to back the tap out and clean the metal shavings off), and voila!, I now have the windshield bolted directly into the Givi stalks. I was hesitant to use 10-24 (a coarse thread) because usually such applications call for a fine thread (e.g. 10-32) but that's all Lowes' had in stainless, and it actually worked out - the coarse thread is easier to start the screw into, and the rubber grommets in the windshield thru holes compress so it doesn't take any appreciable force to tighten (a fine thread allows you to really torque down). I would have loved using a 6mm or even a 1/4-20 or 1/4-28, but those wider sizes are an appreciable fraction of the stalk's diameter and I was doing this entirely by hand; so the narrower #10 allowed me to be off a little and still have metal on both sides of the hole (if I was doing it on a drill press I would have stuck with 6mm but the 10-24 turned out to be more than strong enough). I had a brief panic when on my second stalk my pilot drill broke off inside the stalk, but I was able to drill in from the opposite side and complete the job (ruining a second drill bit in the process, which wasn't too pleased with finding a piece of hardened carbide bit in its way).

I also ordered some hard-to-find 2.25" stainless steel button head 10-24s from McMaster, so their heads will sit flush in the Givi plastic collars and a little bit will poke thru the other side of the stalk (right now the screw ends are just about flush). This way I can screw some nylock nuts onto the back and and the windshield will be REALLY secure (nothing would rip the windshield out right now, but also nothing prevents those screws from loosening over time). I also ordered a 6mmx40mm button head to fit through the headlight cutout band center hole (see drawing above). Can you believe it, the steel hex screw I'm using for this is already rusting, but Lowes and Home Depot sell almost no stainless hardware, especially in metric. Anyone who tries drillling and tapping the stalks MUST use stainless (or maybe nylon, not sure if I'd trust that) because the stalks are plain steel and if you don't use stainless screws you will set up an electrolytic reaction and rust the stalks from the inside out.

I've created a new thread on the cruiser shield idea at <http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=679802#679802>. Moderator, if you wish you can bump my prior OT posts over there but please leave this one as a pointer.