Modern Vespa

A long time ago I bought a spare key blank. Not cheap. Took two weeks - for the locksmith to cut it because he didn't have the right tool - he had to order it.

Now it works fine mechanically; you can insert it, turn it to 'on', operate the trunk and gas cover release, etc. Trouble is, I can't program it with my ride. I follow the instructions, inserting the red key, turning it on and off, doing the same with each black key, etc. It works fine for my original black key, but the new one remains dead - won't turn the bike on and won't operate the seat latch.

It's not the battery (the LED still comes on, and in any event the key should turn the bike on with a dead battery). Anybody have any ideas?

Craig.
_________________
Mods & gadgets: Givi SR108/E52 w/lights / Comfort Topscreen / Givi Windscreen / Heated Handgrips / Brakelight Flasher / J Costa Variator / Stebel Nautilus Airhorn / LV Pipe and power module / Garmin ZUMO 550 GPS / Nolan N-102 and N-42 bluetooth helmets / Fehling/Givi E21 hard sidecases.

It's duff by the sound of it.
_________________
Jim Crowther. Curmudgeon and Grumpy Old Git.
No more PMs please, unless about bike security.
If a question is worth asking, then others may learn from the answer as well.

Duff... that's bad, right?
_________________
Mods & gadgets: Givi SR108/E52 w/lights / Comfort Topscreen / Givi Windscreen / Heated Handgrips / Brakelight Flasher / J Costa Variator / Stebel Nautilus Airhorn / LV Pipe and power module / Garmin ZUMO 550 GPS / Nolan N-102 and N-42 bluetooth helmets / Fehling/Givi E21 hard sidecases.

Craig,

I received my new key that required programming this past week. I followed the manual but had problems with it as well until I increased the speed in which I inserted and removed the key and replaced the red key. I was initially waiting a few seconds between the key exchanges as the manual appears to suggest. But when I just sped up the process it worked! Give it a try. Hope yours works out.

Scott

Scott, I tried your 'speedy gonzales' approach, but no joy. I think I must've just got a bum blank.
_________________
Mods & gadgets: Givi SR108/E52 w/lights / Comfort Topscreen / Givi Windscreen / Heated Handgrips / Brakelight Flasher / J Costa Variator / Stebel Nautilus Airhorn / LV Pipe and power module / Garmin ZUMO 550 GPS / Nolan N-102 and N-42 bluetooth helmets / Fehling/Givi E21 hard sidecases.

Bummer! Sorry it didn't work out.

Scott

Craig Jones wrote:

Scott, I tried your 'speedy gonzales' approach, but no joy. I think I must've just got a bum blank.

Mate, If you are still having issues with your Factory key email me and i will help you. There are defective factory chips, they are more common on the "Other" piaggio keys.

Cheers, Jim
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www.allmotorcyclekeys.com

If you have key questions jim@allmotorcyclekeys.com
Scooter keys are online, Motorcycle keys will be added soon.

Craig

My key quick working remotely after the first week. I replaced the batteries and still no luck. I was going to attempt the process explained in the manual but I figured I would just let the dealer address the problem on the first service.

Greg

The trick is to look at the LED light and to follow the instructions

Red key in, on, off and out (as soon as the LED is on turn it off)

Black key number 1 in, on, off and out (as soon as the LED is on turn it off)

Black key number 2 in, on, off and out (as soon as the LED is on turn it off)

Red key in, on, off and out done

Make sure the keys have nothing attached to them.

Jon

Do you mean the LED on the key or the LED on the dash?
_________________
Mods & gadgets: Givi SR108/E52 w/lights / Comfort Topscreen / Givi Windscreen / Heated Handgrips / Brakelight Flasher / J Costa Variator / Stebel Nautilus Airhorn / LV Pipe and power module / Garmin ZUMO 550 GPS / Nolan N-102 and N-42 bluetooth helmets / Fehling/Givi E21 hard sidecases.

Sounds like there is confusion here, at least I am. scooterjon is describing programming the RFID in the key to the bike and you are talking batteries in the key. The batteries in the key have nothing to do with the RFID and starting the bike. The batteries operate the transmitter in the key to open the seat. You can pull the batteries out of the key and still start the bike if the two are mated properly.

Do you have a problem starting the bike or opening the seat or both?
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Monty
Columbia, MO

2007 MP3/250-Russo Red

No the LED on the dash. the blinking RED LED.....blink blink blink. YOu will also have to program the seat remote as well.

and here it goes...



Key in on press button release off (listen fro the beep of the scoot then then turn off)

Do this 5 times and on the 5th time the seat actuator will move. then you are done. Do not remove the key until this is done.

Jon

Craig,

What scooterjon has documented in his last post is correct but with no offense meant to him I will clarify it a little for those (possibly you, no offense) that have never done or are still confused. I document stuff for a living I see a need to help clarify scooterjon's instructions a tad.

To program the seat opening portion of the key fob:

1. Insert the key.
2. Turn the key/bike on, the bike will beep twice.
3. After the red security LED on the speedo goes out, one second after turning on, press the button on the key (seat open button). Nothing obvious will happen, this is normal. Press firmly so you are assured it was pressed.
4. Turn the key/bike off.
5. Repeat steps 1 through 4 -FOUR- MORE TIMES, after the fifth time (total number of times) the seat opener will actuate indicating success.

What you are doing it teaching the bike the security sequence the key is using to the bike have so that they are in sync because there is a random rotated code pattern they follow and have to be on the same page.

good luck!
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Monty
Columbia, MO

2007 MP3/250-Russo Red

Hi Craig, Keep us up to date on this mate. Remember there is a possibility the chip is funky, Maybe? As we discussed, Have you tried local yet.

I have replaced 9 so far.

Cheers

Bad Chip?

_________________
www.allmotorcyclekeys.com

If you have key questions jim@allmotorcyclekeys.com
Scooter keys are online, Motorcycle keys will be added soon.

Yup Jim as soon as I can I'm going to try and have my master key read and get the code to you. I think it's gotta be a bad chip.
_________________
Mods & gadgets: Givi SR108/E52 w/lights / Comfort Topscreen / Givi Windscreen / Heated Handgrips / Brakelight Flasher / J Costa Variator / Stebel Nautilus Airhorn / LV Pipe and power module / Garmin ZUMO 550 GPS / Nolan N-102 and N-42 bluetooth helmets / Fehling/Givi E21 hard sidecases.

Craig Jones wrote:

Yup Jim as soon as I can I'm going to try and have my master key read and get the code to you. I think it's gotta be a bad chip.

Great mate, I changed another this morning. That's now 10 MP3 keys with Bad factory chips Utter crap.

Let me know mate.

Cheers
_________________
www.allmotorcyclekeys.com

If you have key questions jim@allmotorcyclekeys.com
Scooter keys are online, Motorcycle keys will be added soon.

Called my dealer in Orlando Fla. as I wanted to know why I did not get my key code card. He said that they do not work in the US and Piaggio does not want to spring for the expense to program the code to the keys for US use. I asked what to do If I lose the key black one he can get me another one as long as I have the red key he can program a new key. So I asked to get another black key now just in case and he said it will not allow you to program another key to have an extra. It will only allow one black key at a time and the master red key. Go figure (did any one of youall get your key card code with your scoot. Bob

I am having problems programming my black remote key. Above I read to use the red key, then the black 2x, then the red.
And I read only using the black key.
Neither seems to work.
Help!

We are having the same problem. We purchased a blank and had it cut (major hassle) and the new key will not program like the existing one. I may try again today with the hints from above but I don't hold much hope.
_________________
.......Chuck
Suzuki DL650K4
196x Allstate Cruisaire owner (40 years ago!)

you best bet on keys is to send them to jimh he is a member here on this forum and a locksmith. he has the absolute best price around. pm him at jimh
_________________
While U can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink


MV #5270
UPS-SC #8

Tried again last nite; no luck. I should clarify that similar to Craig Jones original post, the black remote will light up when I press either button & "works fine mechanically; you can insert it, turn it to 'on', operate the trunk and gas cover release, etc." but it won't turn the bike on & won't remotely operate the seat latch or trunk latch.

It appears that I will end up at a dealer...But then...anyone willing to help me try once again?
The instructions people posted appeared to work for them but seem to present three different scenarios:
Scenario #1- red & black keys...
a- w/the red key in; turn the red key to on, let the dash light up, wait until the LED (red LED/immobilizer device on the speedo) finishes it's final "blink, blink, blink," turn the key to off & pull it out.
b- do the same w/the black key/remote except after the "blink, blink, blink, push the button on the remote -- which causes the dash LED to stay on as long as the remote is left on -- turn it to off & pull it out.
c- repeat w/the same w/the black key
d- repeat "a" & hope for a click
e- note: this procedure specifies 4x of taking a key in & out
f- go thru the same procedure separately for the trunk & the seat; the only difference being to push the picture of the lock (button) thru the process or to push the picture of the bike w/open trunk lid (button) thru the process.

Scenario #2 - red & black keys...
a- do the above but instead of waiting for the red LED to stop, [i]w/no mention of pressing the remote[/i]
Red key in, on, off and out (as soon as the LED is on turn it off)
Black key number 1 in, on, off and out (as soon as the LED is on turn it off)
Black key number 2 in, on, off and out (as soon as the LED is on turn it off)
Red key in, on, off and out done"

Scenario #3 - use the black key all the way thru 5x (in the order of Scenario #1) w/no mention of the red key).

Also, I am unclear if the remote needs to go thru a scenario twice; once for the seat & once for the trunk.
Thanks! My learning curve is improving!

Jeff

Something is just not working right - I don't think the "programmer" is programming anything!

I tried it again:

brown/red key - on - IL (immobilizer LED) on then off, pause, blink, blink - off

"good" black key - on - IL on then off, nothing else - wait - off

"new" black key - on - IL on then off, pause, slow blink, blink, blink, pause, steady IL on - off

brown key - on IL on then off, pause, blink, blink - off

"good" key still starts the motor, "new" key does not.

Another reason that I think nothing is being programmed - if I go through the above sequence with just the "new" key, the "good" key still starts the motor!

I checked through the owner's manual, no other steps. They do not mention any LED blinks - just a timed sequence.

Now, I WAS able to program the remote seat release on the 500 using the 5X on-press-off method.

Just need the second key to start the motor!
_________________
.......Chuck
Suzuki DL650K4
196x Allstate Cruisaire owner (40 years ago!)

Congratulations! At least you are making progress!

Can I ask a possibly stupid question. Why weren't the keys cloned? Cloning copies the data from one chip to another and thus avoid the programming process?

Dale
_________________
"Well behaved women rarely make history." - Ulrich

I bought my bike from a fellow in Denver & had it shipped. It came w/1 red/brown key & 1 black blank remote key that I had cut to fit. I am open to suggestions.

-- Jeff

Gilk51

Why don't you just send it to JimH and have him fix it for you. Sounds like a bad chip to me.

Wayne B
_________________
Red MP3 500
Ashburn, Va.

Say No To Aftermarket Warranties, at some point you will regret buying it.
Manufactures Extended warranty or nothing.

The place where you had your key cut to fit should have a cloning machine. The locksmiths seem incredulous that our bike keys have transponder chips - I mean it is just a scooter afterall. But if the locksmith cut that kind of key I pretty much guarantee that he has a cloning machine. The machines that I have seen that do this cloning look to be about the side of credit card readers. They stick one key in one side and the key they are copying to in another side and it copies in seconds. BMWs, Lexus and Mercedes all have the kind of keys we do and those locksmiths clone (copy) those all the time. I was looking at eBay to see if jimh had an auction for his keys - he doesn't at this time. But his auction lists all the machines that will copy our keys. The machine that my locksmith used was an RS-2. He didn't know if it would work. It won't hurt the keys to try and you will know if it worked because there will be an error message on the machine if it doesn't. So the uncut spare key that I got from jimh was cloned and cut at my locksmith. The locksmiths around here (probably most everywhere) don't have our keys in stock.

Another suggestion is to after you get your key working get spare(s) from jimh. My kids lost my slave (black) key and I am waiting for the dealer to call me any day to tell me my new slave key is in. My dealer doesn't know how or where to get the key cut so it will come blank. But as soon as I get it I will be sending my red key, the slave and an order for an additional spare to jimh.

Good luck,

Dale
_________________
"Well behaved women rarely make history." - Ulrich

dccappy wrote:

Can I ask a possibly stupid question. Why weren't the keys cloned? Cloning copies the data from one chip to another and thus avoid the programming process?

Two reasons:

1. This is the first time anyone mentioned cloning, especially not locally. I was familiar with jimh's service and was considering sending to him.

2. We were familiar with the process (used it with a Derbi scooter - very similar procedure) and IT SHOULD WORK. It is quite quick when it works - much faster than finding and dealing (explaining) all this to a locksmith.

My wife had the key cut ("copied") at an independent shop that works on Eupopean cars. The key physically works (turns the lock). Never heard that cloning a key was an option.
_________________
.......Chuck
Suzuki DL650K4
196x Allstate Cruisaire owner (40 years ago!)

There are loads of blank black keys with transponders that are duff on the market, even from Piaggio direct.

jimh is your best bet.

Just noticed a vital few words went AWOL...
_________________
Jim Crowther. Curmudgeon and Grumpy Old Git.
No more PMs please, unless about bike security.
If a question is worth asking, then others may learn from the answer as well.

Last edited by jimc on Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:59 pm; edited 2 times in total

jimh
_________________
While U can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink


MV #5270
UPS-SC #8

Ok. So the two keys that came w/my pre-owned bike shipped out of Denver are:
1- a red/brown key that starts the bike
2- a black blank remote key that is now cut like the first key, works to manually open the trunk/seat, but will not start the bike.
As noted earlier, the remote lites when pressed & when inserted & pressed, will bring on the red dash led, but won't cause the trunk or seat to open remotely.
It may be that I need to start over w/a dealer. I cannot send out the two keys for programming as w/out my red/brown key I cannot start the bike. Suggestions?
Thanks!

the-key wrote:

Ok. So the two keys that came w/my pre-owned bike shipped out of Denver are: 1- a red/brown key that starts the bike 2- a black blank remote key that is now cut like the first key, works to manually open the trunk/seat, but will not start the bike. As noted earlier, the remote lites when pressed & when inserted & pressed, will bring on the red dash led, but won't cause the trunk or seat to open remotely. It may be that I need to start over w/a dealer. I cannot send out the two keys for programming as w/out my red/brown key I cannot start the bike. Suggestions? Thanks!

if it was me I would suck up the 2-3 days and send the keys to jimh. I sent him my key from california to him in maine and had them back in my hands in 6 days and they work great. btw I don't know of a dealer yet that cuts the piaggio keys it does take a special size machine as the grooves are smaller than say the car style keys. jim h the way to go
_________________
While U can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink


MV #5270
UPS-SC #8

Thanks. That may be my best bet. Jim...can you give me the details?

Here's what you do, you need spare keys. Send your Red key to JimH and buy a key from him ( for like $10-20 I think ) he cuts and clones you a new key, sends that key back to you and keeps the Red Key. Then send the key you bought to him and have him FIX & clone that one and he can send both the new and red key back to you.

Wayne B
_________________
Red MP3 500
Ashburn, Va.

Say No To Aftermarket Warranties, at some point you will regret buying it.
Manufactures Extended warranty or nothing.

the-key wrote:

Thanks. That may be my best bet. Jim...can you give me the details?

send a pm to him. his MV name is ..... jimh ......

just do a search under memberlist
_________________
While U can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink


MV #5270
UPS-SC #8

Thanks, guys. I just wrote him a note.
-- Jeff

jeff he is the 7th post down from the top of this thread just click on his pm symbol
_________________
While U can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink


MV #5270
UPS-SC #8

look at this post

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic34672
_________________
While U can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink


MV #5270
UPS-SC #8

Rerun wrote:

Called my dealer in Orlando Fla. as I wanted to know why I did not get my key code card. He said that they do not work in the US and Piaggio does not want to spring for the expense to program the code to the keys for US use. I asked what to do If I lose the key black one he can get me another one as long as I have the red key he can program a new key. So I asked to get another black key now just in case and he said it will not allow you to program another key to have an extra. It will only allow one black key at a time and the master red key. Go figure (did any one of youall get your key card code with your scoot. Bob

I could be wrong(its been known to happen ), but that sounds like a large, steaming pile of..... Both my mp3s, purchased separately came with code cards. The dealer told me that I would need that card to get extra keys. He also told me that I could have as many copies as I needed, but I would have to mail off the card and pay for each key separately. It sounds to me like the dealer is giving you a big fancy, technical version of "SHOO!", so that he doesn't have to do anything.
_________________
Luthorhuss
-"If your actions speak louder than your words, you're not screaming loud enough."

Frankly I don't know what the code card is used for???? I have a spare key created by a locksmith and nary a code card was in sight to clone the key. When I took my bike in for its first service I diligently brought my code card and red key with me and they only thing they wanted was my red key. I am sure you need the code card for something - I would guess that if you lost all your keys then all the information would be on the card. But you certainly do not need it to make spare keys - black or any other colour.

Wow it seems to me that either the dealers don't know anything or make it up as they go along. I guess telling you they honestly don't know is better than bull****.
_________________
"Well behaved women rarely make history." - Ulrich