Modern Vespa

Just got a call from Sorchichi. He called me from the junk yard they towed his 500 to. He said he was riding down I93, heard a thunk, lost power and pulled over. When he looked at the engine he noticed the head was cracked and a "hole" in the engine!!! WTF? He's okay but a bit in shock.

I'm sure we'll hear more about it from Chi in bit.

That happened to one in the UK last year. Faulty crank IIRC, broke the engine off it's mounts, all left resting on the sump-guard. Warranty replacement of whole machine.

Bummer.

Yea, his is less than 30 days old. The only bad thing will be his down time. I'm betting two months minimum.

unacceptable crap

Makes you wonder about Piaggio's QA. Does anyone know of any 250/400 problems with engines?

OK, thats very disturbing. On the bright side, I basically have this engine in my Aprilia Scarabeo 500 and have had 11,000 trouble free miles. Its the 460 version, so there may be some differences that could account for the problems in the M500. I have been on the Aprilia forums for years, and I do not ever recall a blown engine on the Scarabeo 500. I was feeling good about getting pretty much the same engine again, and indeed, hope this is the exception and not the rule as these bikes go.

It is my understanding that is not the same engine at all. It is a completly different engine. Actually the 400 is closer to being the same engine as the 460. It has many of the same parts and has a single spark plug. I know others will comment.
I agree, lets hope that this is a fluke.

Twist and Go magazine had a Vespa GTS 250 ie engine blow in its Scooter, and we all know how seriously reliable that unit it is. The 500 has had very few reports of failure judging by what you see in various forums so is probably a one-off also.

Don't let a forum post blow this out of proportion...

My commiserations to the OP though. I have just bought a new car and it has been in the garage for a fortnight having an electronics CANBUS issue sorted, so I know how it must feel....

Yes it's an all-new engine. There may well be some QA issues, and I'm sure Piaggio will take this occurrence very seriously - they did the last one!

Jim, that's good news for Chi and I would expect them to go high and to the right. Again though, I expect a parts delay from Italy. It took forever to get my parts for my 250 after my t-bone. We'll see. If they were smart--Piaggio NA would send him a new one a.s.a.p.

I am so glad that I found Modern Vespa forum. I had my (hard earn money) in hand ready to put deposit on a new MP3, now, they are staying in the bank until Piaggio get their act together, or someone from the big FOUR comes up with something similar.
Considering number of the vehicles on the road, number of miles put on the vehicle, (ufo is an exception). For what I read here, there is way too many issues, problems and the things that should not happened and vehicle that you payed for so much. If was a China's made cheep, it wouldn't be as big of an issue.
I did spend two and a half decades in the industry, on four wheels, I have seen a lot of things and how long they lasted after the publicity got the best of them. Yes, I did work on FIAT too, and I was getting flashbacks when "jimc"posted a photo with the rusted connectors for the flasher.

I took more than a year to decide but when looking at the success of the MP3 with our cousins across the big water I decided to go ahead. There are bound to be problems and would be suspicious if I never heard of any. What I would watch for is how well Piaggio responds.

Just got back from the tow yard… just like what eneal said… I was on 93 6:30am going north left most lane going 75 than hear a pop, I was wearing ear plugs and still heard it pretty clear so it must be loud. Good thing I was on the left most lain so I was able to pull over to the left when it happen. I would be fucked if I was in the middle lane.

The cops called a tow and tow it to the nearest tow yard than I called piaggio and have them tow it to Plymouth Vespa 43 miles from the tow yard. Cost me 95 bucks. On top of the 105 that I have to pay to tow it off the high way to the tow yard. So towing alone cost me 200. I was waiting at the tow yard for over 2 hours for Piaggio’s tow service to arrive. The first tow from the high way to the tow yard tried to strap it from the side to lift the bike up and the result, cracked my side panel. They said they are willing to pay for the damage.

Plymouth Vespa told me they contacted Piaggio at CA (I would guess that’s their HQ) and said they are very interested at this problem. They have to take pictures and send it to them and wait for their answer to do any warranty work and that would take a week. And I can’t imagine how long it will take them to send new parts or a new engine + shop time, or a new bike. So as of now it seems I will be bikeless for a very very long time.

I know that lots of problems being discussed on the forum about the MP3 does not mean that the MP3 is a bad bike cause that’s what forums are for, to share and discuss problems. I am really starting to question the way Piaggion build these bikes and their reliability.

Try to imagine yourself in my position, we are not talking a minor problem here… there’s a 5 inch hole on the engine and half of the piston is hanging on the frame, I am holding the other half in my hand. I only had the bike for 25 days, 1300 miles, did my first service on time. A bike so new with an exploded engine is absurd, so you really can’t blame me for thinking this way…

But I do have to give credit on how the bike rides. I never would have had so much fun riding a 2 wheel, it handles great and I love every min of it… when it worked.

I really don't know what to say anymore. First i was very mad standing alone at the side of the highway thinking of the calls and paper work i have to go thru, 8 hours later i am sitting here down and sad that i will be bikeless for a very very long time. *huge sigh.....

Here are some pictures, I took lots and all of them aren’t very clear cause the hole is in a weird position for my camera and my camera’s focus isn’t that great.

My heart goes out to you. After all the waiting and high expectations, it makes those of us still waiting a tad wary.

I hope Piaggio does something QUICKLY for you. You have already parted with money, they should SEE TO IT that you have a ride until this issue is resolved. It is not in their best interests to have you bikeless until they finally get their act together to determine what to do. If nothing else, your dealer should be certain that you are taken care of as an iterim measure.

Many of us will be watching with great interest the outcome of this affair. Please keep us posted. And I am sorry for your misfortune.

Sorry for the downtime coming Chi, good that you're ok and as you said didn't happen in the middle lane.

So for someone that hasn't purchased there 500 flat out yet (small downpayment to hold), should something like this raise a caution flag about purchasing the 500?

Certainly for every serious issue you see posted there must be many 500 drivers out there who don't post on sites because they have had no problems at all or if so just minor ones.

I they had widespread motor issues, we would have heard about it from the EU types who have had this bike for the better part of a year now. This is just bad luck. Good luck, as its a warranty item. Its not like its a 13 month old bike that had its motor blow up.

If your engine could speak, it would be saying OUCH! about now. I am sure Piaggio will want to do right by you. Insist that they do so.

Holy mother of god....

Out of curiosity do we know what oil was used at the first service and how much?

It would suggest a crank issue due to the amount of damage, but from the picture it seems intact although it is hard to see clearly... is the rod bent??

Will we get more pictures or is it now gone for dealer eyes only

Perhaps.

I moved from Italy to Boston last July and hadn't seen one Gilera Fuoco on the road as of 27 July 2008. OBTW, I rode 4k miles in the Alps from 04 July to 21 July and didn't see one in Italy, Slovenia, Germany, Austria, Switzerland or France. As a matter of fact--I only saw two MP3s that whole trip.

It will be interesting seeing if anyone else reports similar catastrophic engine failures other than the one Jim C knows about. Might have been a bad batch of cam shafts or whatever caused that piston to breakthrough the block.

I don't believe in bad luck. Something mechanical failed and where there is smoke--there's fire. I'm just glad Chi wasn't in the middle lane!!

Hey Chi--what are you doing for dinner?

yikes....nasty to look at...


any warning lights at all?

do you know what oil was put in at the 600 miles service (i had the synth stuff put in at mine)?

sorry to hear that...sorry to see that...gahhhh

g

I had dinner at home… sigh… too sad to dine out…

You’re right that I should complain directly to Piaggio! Going to write them a nasty email tonight, not really interested in temp. Replacement scooter while the bike is in the shop though. What I really want is they would reimburse me for the towing fee! 200 bucks a lot for me! =..(

Hmmm, is this really not the Master Engine, modified and bumped to almost 500cc's? I realize, 2 spark plugs, and other things are different. If not, I was under an illusion. One of the selling points really, to my mind.
It would be hard to really ever trust this bike if this happened again to someone. Lets hope it doesn't.

It won't be an oil issue (unless they overfilled it - did they know to screw the filler cap right in to check, not just to 'rest' on the edge?) - it will be a catastrophic crank failure or perhaps bent conrod. Bad metal/hardening/something perhaps, but I'm very sure Piaggio will clock this - two known similar failures.

I'm also sure it isn't a widespread issue. If it was I'd be selling mine pronto, and I'm not doing that!

Looking at Luka's photos of his MP3 club, I can see 3 500's in that one group. So if the motors were junk, we would know about it.

chi

Sorry to hear about your engine problem. I am glad you are ok though. When I got my first silver MP3 250 it wouldn't idle so after the first 15 mi. I took it back to the dealer. My dealer gave me there demo to ride while my MP3 was being worked on. Well 5 days later my dealer said they were going to send my MP3 250 back to Italy because it couldn't be fixed by my dealer. My dealer wanted to know if I liked the black 250 they had. I said yes that would be ok. I think they really wanted their deno MP3 back. So the next day I went to the dealer and picked up the black one. Now I would say that was good service. The dealer did crate the silver one up and sent it back. The dealer did get paid for the extra paper work and it was a good thing that I hadn't registered it with the DMV here in Nevada.

I think my dealer did a fantastic job in keeping me happy after all I did put over 500 mi on there demo. I think Piaggio did me a favor in switching out the bikes. Piaggio really backed there product IMO. I hope this story makes you feel a little better. I really don't think there is a bigger problem with this engine and this is just a one off problem.


Reno Bob

DAM!! my sympathies, bad situation with such a new "toy"(warranty or not), hope it's resolved quickly & correctly.

Anyway my 1st post, been doing some in-depth research the past 3 days prior to my test ride / purchase this weekend, including much time on the Piaggio site. Found this, not sure if you already knew about it, but when I saw your post I figured I'd mention it.

Warranty: One Year factory warranty and 24-hour roadside assitance


I would think they should reimburse you what you paid. Good luck.

My reply was in response to your comment regarding how long the MP3 500 has been on the road. Junk is a strong term and YOURS I might add. I have read several posts regarding different issues with some of the bikes (rust, stalls, blown engines, throttle hesitation, loose nuts and bolts, etc) Those are indications of a trend in my book. It happens in the auto industry all the time with first year productions.

I bought a BMW (new model year) in 2000 and had some issues (faulty rear drive, main engine seal leak, engine surging (that was on my 2001 F650GS--first model year too)). I really wish I would have known about blogs back then IF there were GS blogs in 2000 (can't remember) . When I did find the blogs (adventuer rider) I actually felt better knowing it wasn't just my bike and pissed because I had spent over twice what a MP3 250 cost AND it was a legendary BMW. OBTW, I saw plenty of BMWs in pictures ("like Lucas") and all over the world and on the road. Me and hundreds maybe thousands of BMW owners still had problems. BMW owned up to the problems--well most of them.

Will Chi's experience persuade some from buying a Piaggio--sure. For me they are data points. I wouldn't sell my MP3 for anything. I love it with all it's potential quirksl For the record--I bought another BMW (K1200GT) in 2003 (first year production) and loved it like it was my child . . . well there was that cruise control issue--but BMW fixed it.

Returning from vacation yesterday I found a wifi signal in San Juan airport and, stopped by MV to discover in horror Chi's dilemma. I also called Plymouth Vespa to check in on my 250's electrical failure and spoke with Chris who told me that the 500 was dropped off not 20 minutes earlier. He is calling CA Thursday to see what Vespa is going to do.

Scott

Scott, Flynprettyhi had some electrical issues too that he posted in early April. How many miles do you have on your 250? What were your symptoms if any?

I'm planning a ride from Boston to Millington in June and am a bit concerned. I have about 1500 miles on mine. Nothing electrical yet . . .

anyone know anything about this?

http://www.allworldauto.com/recalls/NHTSA_07V366000_2008_PIAGGIO_MP3_250_RL_recall_66789.html

Chi, thanks. Here it is:

2008 PIAGGIO MP3 250 RL Recall

HOME » P » PIAGGIO » MP3 250 RL » 2008 » Engine » 07V366000
NHTSA Campaign Number: 07V366000
Vehicle/Equipment Make: PIAGGIO
Vehicle/Eqipment Model: MP3 250 RL
Model Year: 2008
Mfg Campaign Number:
Mfg Component Desc: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Mfg Involved in Recall: PIAGGIO USA, INC.
Manufacture Dates:
Type of Report: (V) Vehicle
Potential # of Units Affected: 159
Date Owner Notified by Mfg:
Recall Initiated By: MFR
Mfg Responsible for Recall: PIAGGIO USA, INC.
Report Recieved Date: 08-07-07
Record Creation Date: 08-07-07
Regulation Part Number:
FMVSS Number:
Defect Summary: ON CERTAIN MOTOR SCOOTERS, THE HEAD OF THE ENGINE ATTACHMENT BOLT (P/N 597080) MAY BREAK.
Consequence Summary: IF THE BOLT WERE TO BREAK, THE ENGINE COULD BECOME LOOSE AND DETACH ITSELF FROM THE VEHICLE FRAME, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Corrective Summary: THE ENGINE ATTACHMENT BOLTS (VD 10.9) WILL BE REPLACED. ALL VEHICLES ARE STILL IN TRANSIT TO THE UNITED STATES. NONE OF THESE VEHICLES HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO DEALERS OR SOLD TO CUSTOMERS.

The Corrective Summary is good news for those of us that already own them. As I read it--it only applies to 250 in transit. One more data point . . .

Report Recieved Date: 08-07-07
Record Creation Date: 08-07-07

I am confused about the dates, ware those bikes from lest year?

Here's the link: http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24153&highlight=dead+scooter

Scott

Good question and good catch. I would say if the bulletin was generated last summer--said MP3s are on the road. I'm going to call Vespa.

There was a post about this when that recall went into effect last year. Please pay attention to the last sentence:

Corrective Summary: THE ENGINE ATTACHMENT BOLTS (VD 10.9) WILL BE REPLACED. ALL VEHICLES ARE STILL IN TRANSIT TO THE UNITED STATES. NONE OF THESE VEHICLES HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO DEALERS OR SOLD TO CUSTOMERS.

thats nasty

thats like, complete new scooter time.

I hear you and that's what I said in my post; however, I don't have a warm and fuzzy that the dealership I purchased from saw the bulletin and that's why I will be checking to see if it's been done on my MP3.

Believe me, Manufactures don't let the dealers ignore recalls like that.

Wayne B

Last edited by Wayne B on Thu May 01, 2008 4:07 pm; edited 2 times in total

It's illegal to sell a new vehicle without completing recall work.

Dave