Modern Vespa

I just came across this article from the Wall Street Journal where they discuss the potential weaknesses of the new law kicking in on July 1 for CA (can't hold a cell anymore, must use hands-free, and teenagers can't use cell at all, and can't text-message while driving).

Particularly this section mirrors my concerns, and it is bad news:

'Other studies using data from Canada and Western Australia have looked at specific auto accidents, including nonfatal crashes, and whether motorists were talking on their phones at the time of the crashes. Those studies found that driver cellphone use increased the risk of having a serious accidents by four times. There was no difference in the rate of crashes for drivers who used headsets versus regular phones.
"Once people are talking on the phone, the distraction seems to be approximately equal" '

I have maintained that since day one and am totally guilty in that respect. As soon as I am talking while driving, I make mistakes, I miss exits, I get lost. That is talking on the phone, or talking to a passenger.

The bad news for us--I have said this before, and I say it again, because it is important for us scooterists--the bad news is that we can't tell anymore if a cager is on the phone or not. Before, we could tell by them holding the phone, and that was the big warning sign to stay clear. We won't see that red flag any more, and that sucks.

I, for one, hope they rescind that law again.
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`
Formerly known as Moped. In dubio pro moto.


Leaning towards fun

agreed
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The human mind cannot handle multiple tasks that require concentration at the same time. Yes we can multi-task by having many projects open on our desk but only one gets the attention at any given time. As an experiment try this:

With your toothbrush in hand brushing your teeth (the electric variety is preferable as it it less action oriented than a manual brush) and a sponge or cloth or other such cleaning device in the other brush your teeth and clean the bath tub or sink at the same time. It is guaranteed that both tasks will have moments when one or the other takes priority and the other is left doing nothing. The exact same thing happens when talking and driving - either the conversation or the driving gets pushed to the back of the priority list and most of the time it is the driving, because by and large the act of driving is taken for granted.

The problem with the above experiment is that when people try it they are purposely making a concentrated effort to do both well. When people talk on the phone while driving that is seldom, if ever the case.

Dave

Any bets on how long before this thread gets locked??
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Chetwynder wrote:

Any bets on how long before this thread gets locked??

I hope not at all, and I hope we can all be civil about this, even if we disagree.

It is definitely not my intention to start a thread that is doomed to be locked, so please don't jinx it.
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`
Formerly known as Moped. In dubio pro moto.


Leaning towards fun

But you know what? A lot of people are going to hear "Yah, no more cellphones when driving, I got a ticket." So they won't even try or they wont be able to afford a headset or know what one is.

Also. At least it will keep both of their hands free, maybe they might actually signal a turn before they jet in front of you.
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therailnutter wrote:

But you know what? A lot of people are going to hear "Yah, no more cellphones when driving, I got a ticket." So they won't even try or they wont be able to afford a headset or know what one is.

The trouble is, the ticket for the first offence is $20. For subsequent convictions it's $50.

Can you say "slap on the wrist?"

"With the addition of penalty assesments, the fines can be more than trippe the base fine amount."

Whatever that means.

I too have seen studies that say the distraction is the same, headset or no. I'm sure that even drivers using cell phone with headsets are more distracted than lone drivers riding with the radio off...but it's different for different drivers. Kids in the car? BIG distraction!

For us, it's safest to assume that all other drivers are crazy, distracted, or blind. I watch out for EVERYBODY!!!!
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I always dislike it when somebody spots a safety problem before I do!

I'm so annoyed by cell-phoners, it hadn't quite occurred to me that seeing somebody on a cell phone was fair warning.
You're right! The hands-free law will mask that. I encountered two erratic drivers today who I could have [/i]sworn were driving either drunk or on cell phones ... then I saw their headsets.

Your safety caution is well taken.

From what I've read, hands-free is equally or almost as dangerous as hand to the ear. I followed the original studies fairly closely. Can anybody direct me to research that shows that the dangers are similar?

I wonder what the data would be on cycle communication systems and GPS use....

Could folks please post the studies or the links?
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"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." -- Mark Twain

This is a classic subject where education is critical. Sadly the law you mention appears to only address the most egregious level of distraction caused by mobile phones, and probably, as a result will cause a false sense of security for those who will now gab on endlessly using a hands free setup.

I refer a lot to the WADOT. A running buddy of mine retired as the chief of the accident investigation and safety division of the State Patrol there. He was a great proponent of education as well as enforcement, as voluntary compliance would change the behavior of many more people than the police could ever reach directly. Thus, they run regular campaigns with slogans that have shown to raise awareness. Seat belt usage signs are everywhere, with the words, "Click it or Ticket". They found that compliance went up and fatalities where seat belts were not worn went down. Back when seat belts were first introduced and were not yet mandatory, one automobile safety public service radio and TV spot would say "You don't want to be caught dead sitting on your seat belt".

And, it's not a "Scooterist versus Cager" issue. It's a general public safety issue. Limiting our cries to bad mouthing cagers diminishes the effect we might have in changing behaviors.

For those of you in the States, why not work to get some hotshot local TV or newspaper reporters to do a series on vehicle safety in general. Those studies that show no reduction in accidents are hot stuff. Then suggest they address the increasing PTW population and how that changes what every driver needs to be alert to, both cagers and PTWers. Great opportunity to hype MSF. More PTWs can be shown as a normal affair. Hell, we all get along just fine in Europe. I could envision a really good week long set of installments. Local TV stations and newspapers love to show that they are privy to stuff the general public doesn't know. If the behavior of just one driver, be it cager or scooterist, is changed, that's one less potential mishap.

If you belong to a scooter club, that's a good foot in the door for approaching the media. Have the club appoint a "safety officer", and via that position, approach the media. Be humble and courteously knowledgeable. Let them know that your club is concerned about general traffic safety, that "we are all in this together", and you'd like the selected media outlet to help you spread the word to increase safety in your area. They are always looking for story ideas, and for the TV folks, you are offering a subject with lots of "Visuals".

Think about it. The more "cagers" who see the light, the fewer "cagers" you have to watch out for. Beats complaining!

Al
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood

Chetwynder wrote:

The human mind cannot handle multiple tasks that require concentration at the same time. Yes we can multi-task by having many projects open on our desk but only one gets the attention at any given time. As an experiment try this: With your toothbrush in hand brushing your teeth (the electric variety is preferable as it it less action oriented than a manual brush) and a sponge or cloth or other such cleaning device in the other brush your teeth and clean the bath tub or sink at the same time. It is guaranteed that both tasks will have moments when one or the other takes priority and the other is left doing nothing. The exact same thing happens when talking and driving - either the conversation or the driving gets pushed to the back of the priority list and most of the time it is the driving, because by and large the act of driving is taken for granted. The problem with the above experiment is that when people try it they are purposely making a concentrated effort to do both well. When people talk on the phone while driving that is seldom, if ever the case. Dave Any bets on how long before this thread gets locked??

I don't know how to write this without sounding "picky", but; do you have any actual evidence, other than the little "test" to back this up?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7978

Here's a report that talks about this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/010727094311.htm
It's not particularly recent - but this effect has been known for some time. As to education, I'd like to see (among many other approaches) a public service announcement like that "moonwalking bear" PSA that we saw recently for bike safety - some little "test" related to talking/driving that makes the viewer realize firsthand that our cognitive abilities are limited, and that splitting attention really does cause a decrement in performance.

We have this law already for some years now and it helps just a little bit.
The law states that it is forbidden to have a phone in your hand while driving. As soon as the car stand still its ok.
Allthough you have to pay 180 euros (about $270) people still keep on driving with the phone to the ear sometimes even with a carkit in the car.

I think it would be best if using a phone in the car was forbidden but if you do that you should also forbid eating, drinking, talking to a passanger, using navigation, etc.
This is unfotunately impossible to maintain
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This is very interesting,........I might even think about it for a while.

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NYC has a no cell phone while driving law as outlined above.
People just put the phone in their lap when they see a cop.
I am glad the law exists here. At least a percentage of the population takes the ban seriously, so I will take what I can get there. if 20% of the population of NYC takes the ban seriously, then there are 20% more drivers out there that might actually pay attention while driving 50mph in a giant SUV on a tiny street. The drivers that live in the city are very hip to scooters and bicycles and pedestrians here...
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Laws are a good start, but too many people simply think that these laws are to protect people of lesser skill. Miss Otis made a good point. PSA's tend to work, especially when they are "catchy ones". It's been decades since the "Don't be caught dead sitting on your seat belt" campaign, yet I still remember it.

Just like "Only you can prevent ______ fires". Who said it and what kind of fires? Many of you Yanks should remember. It's damn near unforgettable.

Somehow, the message needs to get out there, loud and clear, that any distraction while driving is dangerous. And, to be quite frank I put GPS navigators in that category. I saw friends use them while we were in the States recently, and was not impressed. Way too much attention to the cute little talking box.

Al
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood

Aviator47 wrote:

Just like "Only you can prevent ______ fires". Who said it and what kind of fires? Many of you Yanks should remember. It's damn near unforgettable.

Smokey the Bear - forest fires.

Miss Otis wrote:

Aviator47 wrote: Just like "Only you can prevent ______ fires". Who said it and what kind of fires? Many of you Yanks should remember. It's damn near unforgettable. Smokey the Bear - forest fires.

No more calls --- we have a winner!!
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood

Davfff wrote:

Chetwynder wrote: The human mind cannot handle multiple tasks that require concentration at the same time. Yes we can multi-task by having many projects open on our desk but only one gets the attention at any given time. As an experiment try this: With your toothbrush in hand brushing your teeth (the electric variety is preferable as it it less action oriented than a manual brush) and a sponge or cloth or other such cleaning device in the other brush your teeth and clean the bath tub or sink at the same time. It is guaranteed that both tasks will have moments when one or the other takes priority and the other is left doing nothing. The exact same thing happens when talking and driving - either the conversation or the driving gets pushed to the back of the priority list and most of the time it is the driving, because by and large the act of driving is taken for granted. The problem with the above experiment is that when people try it they are purposely making a concentrated effort to do both well. When people talk on the phone while driving that is seldom, if ever the case. Dave Any bets on how long before this thread gets locked?? I don't know how to write this without sounding "picky", but; do you have any actual evidence, other than the little "test" to back this up?

I'm taking a three courses in human behavior/development and psychology at the moment and this is one of the points that was made in one of the courses. All I can say is try it. Try it with any two tasks that involve concentration at the same time. Make a cake from scratch and talk on the phone, or make a cake and brush your teeth, talk on the phone and play solitaire. talk on the phone and grocery shop. It makes no difference, you will lose concentration on one and/or the other.

Dave
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Be very leery of free advice - you get what you pay for.

Thank you, Aviator, for your contribution and for chipping in with your expertise. That's what makes MV such a great community--the talent we have in our group, and the willingness to share it.

I started out riding my Vespa with a home-made "vanity plate" while my official plate was still coming in. It read

HANG UP AND DRIVE
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`
Formerly known as Moped. In dubio pro moto.


Leaning towards fun

Moped wrote:

the bad news is that we can't tell anymore if a cager is on the phone or not. Before, we could tell by them holding the phone, and that was the big warning sign to stay clear. We won't see that red flag any more, and that sucks.

You are right on the money on this one, Moped. There was a lady driving while her cell phone was being held by her left shoulder who attempted to make a lane change without turning her head to look. I blasted my Stebel to put her in her place. Idiot. I believe there will be a slight improvement in this department when hands-free are used.
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Moped wrote:

teenagers can't use cell at all, and can't text-message while driving

But this part is unequivocally good news - leaving aside compliance issues (sigh).

Davfff wrote:

I don't know how to write this without sounding "picky", but; do you have any actual evidence, other than the little "test" to back this up?

I mean no disrespect to Davfff or anyone else, but there is a lot of information on this topic available on the internet if one takes the initiative to look for it.

NHTSA (1997) report: An Investigation of the Safety Implications of Wireless Communications in Vehicles

New England Journal of Medicine paper: Association between Cellular-Telephone Calls and Motor Vehicle Collisions

Dr. Strayer's research into perception, distraction and driving

... just to point out a few that came up with a Google search.

There has also been, I believe, Scandinavian studies into cell phones and driving.

I don't believe that the body of research has shown the conclusive results that would sway the most inflexible legislature. However, the trend is in that direction.

Translating the knowledge into behavioural change is the problem. Even knowing what I read, and what I believe, I still use my cell phone at times when I drive. And I remind myself what a bone-headed act it is, each and every time. Habits, however, are hard to change.
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Michael

Ride safe!
Member of the VCoC and the VCoA

harnadem wrote:

Davfff wrote: I don't know how to write this without sounding "picky", but; do you have any actual evidence, other than the little "test" to back this up? I mean no disrespect to Davfff or anyone else, but there is a lot of information on this topic available on the internet if one takes the initiative to look for it. NHTSA (1997) report: An Investigation of the Safety Implications of Wireless Communications in Vehicles New England Journal of Medicine paper: Association between Cellular-Telephone Calls and Motor Vehicle Collisions Dr. Strayer's research into perception, distraction and driving ... just to point out a few that came up with a Google search. There has also been, I believe, Scandinavian studies into cell phones and driving. I don't believe that the body of research has shown the conclusive results that would sway even the most inflexible legislature. However, the trend is in that direction. Translating the knowledge into behavioural change is the problem. Even knowing what I read, and what I believe, I still use my cell phone at times when I drive. And I remind myself what a bone-headed act it is, each and every time. Habits, however, are hard to change.

Several years ago I watched a program that detailed a study from the UK. In it they mounted video cameras trained on drivers faces. The study was conducted over several weeks if I remember and utilized the subjects own cars in normal day to day driving. What the cameras filmed in nearly every case when talking on the phone (hand held - I don't think hands free was widely available) and driving was that the eyes of the driver left the road and looked down.
In the courses I'm taking it is detailed that the humans move their eyes in relation to accessing information stored in the brain. It is interesting to watch people on the sidewalks as they talk on their phones many of them are looking down at the sidewalk as they talk, very oblivious to their surroundings - just as they would be in a car!

Take time to watch people yourself. Don't rely solely on scientific evidence and studies. Watch people in the lobby of your work place, talking outside a restaurant, in a store/mall or walking down the street. You will see first hand evidence. Also watch yourself, observe how you use your cell phone and the state of attention you give to whatever situation you are in. You might be surprised.

Dave
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I would never argue that cell phone use is not a serious distraction. I would argue that use of a hands free device is likely no more distracting than conversing with passengers. I often observe drivers looking at passengers for non verbal clues when conversing. I would also argue that several of the "upgrades" for communication and navigation for scooters are every bit as dangerous and risky as cell pone usage. Holding a cell phone to the ear prevents full motion when turning ones head to look in all directions when driving. At least headset use does not limit range of motion. Personally I have stopped using ALL forms of electronic communication and navigation when driving. For 15 years I used headsets and bluetooth devices while commuting in Las Vegas. I'm certain it was just as safe as conversation with passengers. The good news for me is I no longer have a need to be "connected".
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louisq wrote:

I would never argue that cell phone use is not a serious distraction. I would argue that use of a hands free device is likely no more distracting than conversing with passengers.

Great point!

I find that the problem cagers are often gesturing wildly...
sometimes it's because they are having a heated argument on their hands-free phone,
but far more likely, it's a discussion with their short little passengers in the back seat
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Aviator47 wrote:

Just like "Only you can prevent ______ fires". Who said it and what kind of fires? Many of you Yanks should remember. It's damn near unforgettable.

Not in California, out here it's Wild fires, not Forest.
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-ian

Quitters Scooter Club, est. 1908
San Francisco Bay Area, CA
http://www.quitterssc.org

Sure, blame the new guy...

Our real estate agent here told me a few months back that he was thinking of selling his car and buying a new one. He asked me if I thought it was in good condition. I told him, "It's in great condition, and when you show it to prospective buyers, be sure to mention that there has never been more than one hand on the steering wheel at any one time."

I nag him about his constant cell phone while driving habit. He has started to pull to the side of the road to answer calls now.

Al
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood

May I add a PS to this discussion? Yesterday I had to navigate around a bicyclist for several blocks on a narrow street with no bike lane. He was distracted by taking more than one call on his cell phone--- and cycling erratically each time he flipped it open and pressed it to his ear.

In my car, I've now 'upgraded' to an integrated bluetooth set up: wee speaker above my rearview mirror, integrated w the stereo speaker system. I can't say for sure, of course, but it seems to me that I feel better able to attend to my driving when I take a call on this system. Or maybe I'm too easily impressed by new tech toys, and am just deluding myself....
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VM!!!

Those of you in the UK might know these. I would love to see them here in the US.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNeicVxxDjQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72gRlWXgD0o

Here are some more, first about speeding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5f73EHRhA

seatbelts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWvNeJXE_cY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-9JR2P4wWI

drink driving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX1q66ruuBM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3za8pC_0OY

If only we had some realism like these here, maybe people might think twice...
_________________
-ian

Quitters Scooter Club, est. 1908
San Francisco Bay Area, CA
http://www.quitterssc.org

Sure, blame the new guy...

pdxvespa wrote:

May I add a PS to this discussion? Yesterday I had to navigate around a bicyclist for several blocks on a narrow street with no bike lane. He was distracted by taking more than one call on his cell phone--- and cycling erratically each time he flipped it open and pressed it to his ear. In my car, I've now 'upgraded' to an integrated bluetooth set up: wee speaker above my rearview mirror, integrated w the stereo speaker system. I can't say for sure, of course, but it seems to me that I feel better able to attend to my driving when I take a call on this system. Or maybe I'm too easily impressed by new tech toys, and am just deluding myself....

Deborah, I have a bluetooth connection with my car as well. Talking on the phone via the bluetooth connection seems to be no different from talking to someone in the car with you. I think doing anything in addition to driving probably distracts you a bit at least. However, I think that the bluetooth connection via the car allows you to talk in such a manner that it is no more distracting than talking to a passenger in the front seat of the car. In fact it really would be less distracting because you are never tempted to look over at the person in the other seat as you might during a conversation with someone in the front seat. In any event, I believe it to be less distracting than talking on a cell phone without the bluetooth. I doubt there are any studies to compare this with talking on a cell phone with a headset and with talking with a passenger. That would be an interesting study to do.
_________________
Benny

One of the joys of retirement is that I don't have any pressing need to talk on my mobile while driving. I was fairly successful in my professional life without a mobile, and I just can't seem to come up with a reason to be disturbed now that I am no longer in charge of anything other than myself!

Retirement is great. While the pay ain't so good, the hours and working conditions are magnificent.

Al
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood

Benito wrote:

Talking on the phone via the bluetooth connection seems to be no different from talking to someone in the car with you. I think doing anything in addition to driving probably distracts you a bit at least. However, I think that the bluetooth connection via the car allows you to talk in such a manner that it is no more distracting than talking to a passenger in the front seat of the car. In fact it really would be less distracting because you are never tempted to look over at the person in the other seat as you might during a conversation with someone in the front seat. In any event, I believe it to be less distracting than talking on a cell phone without the bluetooth. I doubt there are any studies to compare this with talking on a cell phone with a headset and with talking with a passenger. That would be an interesting study to do.

An adult passenger is likely to be aware of challenging traffic situations and moderate their end of the conversation accordingly - someone on the other end of a cell phone can't do that, unless we tell them. If we don't manage our attention resources strategically and continue to try to do both, problems can arise.

Miss Otis wrote:

An adult passenger is likely to be aware of challenging traffic situations and moderate their end of the conversation accordingly - someone on the other end of a cell phone can't do that, unless we tell them. If we don't manage our attention resources strategically and continue to try to do both, problems can arise.

I'm going to weigh in with Miss Otis on this. She offers a very valid point.

Add to that my hard earned status as a "grumpy old man", I just have a hard time seeing a pressing need to talk on a mobile while driving, especially long conversations. I say that with all due respect to those here who do. What would be the lasting negative impact of turning it off while you drive and collecting messages when you are finished? When there is someone in the car with you, that's outside your control. Ardy does not have an "Off Switch", but my mobile does. Why is it a man can simply say "Yes, dear" without being distracted, but cannot do the equivalent to his mobile?

An alert to the hyper-sensitive: There is some tongue in cheek in the above.

Al
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood

Al et al,
I agree and I even tell my passengers that I am not a good driver if I talk, so they respect it (and bear the consequences if they get me involved in a conversation anyhow--by losing time till I find my way back again )
_________________
`
Formerly known as Moped. In dubio pro moto.


Leaning towards fun

Benito wrote:

In any event, I believe it to be less distracting than talking on a cell phone without the bluetooth. I doubt there are any studies to compare this with talking on a cell phone with a headset and with talking with a passenger. That would be an interesting study to do.

The wonders of PubMed! There has been research into the relative risk associated with conversation vs. cellular phone use, as well the distracting effect of processing conversation upon simulated driving.

Though I pulled these two studies up relatively quickly (from page 1 of a 6 page output) I have not reviewed them. So don't shoot me if you disagree or find fault with the findings!

Also, I couldn't figure out how to just post the abstracts, so I did screen capture images. I hope they are still readable. I can email the pdf copies to anyone who really wants to read them, if you don't mind waiting a bit.

A decrease in brain activation associated with driving when listening to someone speak.

The contribution of passengers versus mobile phone use to motor vehicle crashes resulting in hospital attendance by the driver.

_________________
Michael

Ride safe!
Member of the VCoC and the VCoA

Chetwynder wrote:

harnadem wrote: Davfff wrote: I don't know how to write this without sounding "picky", but; do you have any actual evidence, other than the little "test" to back this up? I mean no disrespect to Davfff or anyone else, but there is a lot of information on this topic available on the internet if one takes the initiative to look for it. NHTSA (1997) report: An Investigation of the Safety Implications of Wireless Communications in Vehicles New England Journal of Medicine paper: Association between Cellular-Telephone Calls and Motor Vehicle Collisions Dr. Strayer's research into perception, distraction and driving ... just to point out a few that came up with a Google search. There has also been, I believe, Scandinavian studies into cell phones and driving. I don't believe that the body of research has shown the conclusive results that would sway even the most inflexible legislature. However, the trend is in that direction. Translating the knowledge into behavioural change is the problem. Even knowing what I read, and what I believe, I still use my cell phone at times when I drive. And I remind myself what a bone-headed act it is, each and every time. Habits, however, are hard to change. Several years ago I watched a program that detailed a study from the UK. In it they mounted video cameras trained on drivers faces. The study was conducted over several weeks if I remember and utilized the subjects own cars in normal day to day driving. What the cameras filmed in nearly every case when talking on the phone (hand held - I don't think hands free was widely available) and driving was that the eyes of the driver left the road and looked down. In the courses I'm taking it is detailed that the humans move their eyes in relation to accessing information stored in the brain. It is interesting to watch people on the sidewalks as they talk on their phones many of them are looking down at the sidewalk as they talk, very oblivious to their surroundings - just as they would be in a car! Take time to watch people yourself. Don't rely solely on scientific evidence and studies. Watch people in the lobby of your work place, talking outside a restaurant, in a store/mall or walking down the street. You will see first hand evidence. Also watch yourself, observe how you use your cell phone and the state of attention you give to whatever situation you are in. You might be surprised. Dave

It was more the "you can't talk on a phone and drive, because you can't brush your teeth and rub your belly at the same time" analogy that bugged me in the first post.

The post above, however, is great! And you certainly do raise an interesting point regarding eye patterns, it's something I've never thought about.

Personally, I am not against any ban against drivers using cellphones, and I consider TXT'ing while driving to be exceptionally dangerous (I feel very, very anxious when the driver of any car I'm in flips out their phone and starts firing off a TXT).

[quote="Benito"]

pdxvespa wrote:

In my car, I've now 'upgraded' to an integrated bluetooth set up: wee speaker above my rearview mirror, integrated w the stereo speaker system. I can't say for sure, of course, but it seems to me that I feel better able to attend to my driving when I take a call on this system. Or maybe I'm too easily impressed by new tech toys, and am just deluding myself....

I have a visor mounted bluetooth unit. I've used it twice. After my second call on it I realized how much concentration I lost in a very simple phone call. I now turn my phone off when I drive. There is nothing, and I mean nothing so important that it can't wait until I'm off the road.

Dave
_________________
Be very leery of free advice - you get what you pay for.

I just switched to a blue tooth earpiece and find it works pretty well. I still end up looking at my phone to see if it is calling the right person or if it has disconnected after the call. The main advantage is in having 2 hands on the wheel in urban driving. On the highway I slouch a bit and just hold the wheel with one hand. In cities though you really have to be ready to swerve around hazards. It is twice as bad if you must shift also. The headset make me feel more in control of the car. I don't always have it in but I wear it if I know I will be making plans for the evening.
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Last edited by Santiago on Wed May 14, 2008 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

We are probably the keenest observers of dangerous driving because of simultaneous cell-phone usage. I agree with what you all say.

I have to say ( again? can't remember ) that pilots are very good at flying and talking. Most test pilots ( the opposite of combat pilots ) talk while they're flying. Many of the astronauts are good at talking while flying, and that's orbital mechanics which is a bit of Alice-in-Wonderland physics.

I used to argue that I was much safer on a cell phone in a car than the everyday person. But, actually, there is a huge difference. A pilot is not engaged in two-way communication. He/she has learned when to push to talk. There's some subtle multi-task management going on by choosing when to talk.

In one kind of flight research to test, say, differing Head Up Displays, we load the pilot's brain to the snapping point with outside distractions then see how he/she performs some task using the display A vs. display B. The "outside distraction" is often something like a stream of chatter from which they have to recognize some target content and push a button. Like the phrase "Alpha 173" embedded in a lot of "Bravo's" and "Charlies."
When there's a "battle captain" and a "pilot" even talking back and forth can lower their response time and accuracy. I think automated cockpits are taking a long time to come into reality because speech synthesizers and imposing warnings from the computers don't know when to be quiet.

From this I feel that chatting with passengers differs a bit from telephone conversation because in live chat you can modulate your task. Passengers who have a clue can modulate the load they're putting on the driver as well, based on the threat they're feeling from the world outside the windshield.