Modern Vespa

I've never had a bike/scooter in all my 61 years and after 2000 miles on my MP3 250 ie I am loving every minute of it. Initially, I came to it for the MPG but also thought that 3 wheels must make more stability on the road, especially in turns on lousy road conditions and stopping distance. But, who am to say as I know no different.

From all you folks who have had a previous love affair with 2 wheeling, owning and riding motorcycles, what is it that makes the MP3 so appealing and an improvement? My 17 yr old son says that if he were to get a bike he'd have a "real" motorcycle, like the Honda Goldwing (or a Ducati), NOT a scooter. I personally have always enjoyed the sound of a BMW, but those are two expensive machines. Also, I know my wife would never have approved of having a "motorcycle" in the house but went along with a "scooter". So you know the rest. She loves riding pillion on a nice summer night through the New England country roads. YEAH!!

Now that I have experienced the enjoyment of an MP3, what do traditional bikes add to the experience that an MP3 doesn't? Just the idea of not having to clutch to change gears might not be the true idea of a "purist" ride, but electronic, CVT technology seems to be the future in all moving vehicles, from F1 to Nissan sedans.

When I see the description of the new Aprilia Mana 850 and think about that power and tech on the MP3 platform it makes sense and would seem to take the maxi scooter to the next level.

Is the MP3 platform just the next stage in motorcycle development? Is there anything you give up?

Thanks,

David

What I am hoping is that in the next 2-3 years we will see many manufacturers develop motorcycles/scooters with a similar or improved front end AND that the concept will be implemented across a wide array of bikes.

This will give the consumer many choices for improved rider safety and performance.

While Piaggio deserves big kudos for their implementation it is highly unlikely that they will be the only or best choice.

I am not a devotee of Piaggio nor any manufacturer. I am however, in pursuit of better rides and look forward to any manufacturer that can raise the bar.

88

In my book traditional bikes add nothing. I went to a Harley Rider Course and rode a Buell Blast. Harleys do not impress me so I settled on the MP3. When they told me I might be waiting 3 months for my MP3 I bought a used Blast and rode it for 4 or 5 weeks until the MP3 arrived.

Shifting is no great joy in a city even though I've owned several sports cars and am fair at it. The MP3 is a totally sweet ride around town or on the road (only had it 10 days and my max speed has been about 65 to 70 on the freeway) -- but I did have a time learning to park and start off. When I get my windscreen I'm off for a road trip.

I think my 500 is reliable and should last a LONG time. I was at an opening the other night and met a guy riding a '62 Vespa that looked like it was a year old.

Once you've checked your rear tire after about another 800 miles, let me know if you are still enthused about the MP3 as you are now.
Like you, I was, but not now.

What problems have you had "Emptynest" that would make you say that?

I have a ball rear tire after only 3200 miles. A replacement is on order, but how long will that replacement take me? Another 3000 miles? Not a good way to go when other scooters are getting 14, 15, or 16k's on theirs.
I'm not the only one either. Check out my thread on the forum for pictures.

I see your point emptynest.

My 250 had a slow leak in the left front tire.

My mechanic replaced the tire the next day as he called Michelin and they said they would reimburse him for the tire and labor to put it on.

I then found out it was Piaggio's problem since the bike was a little over a week old.

Well, as fate would have it, neither "Piaggio or Michelin" stepped up to the plate and I ended up paying for this out of MY pocket!

If the slow leak coulddn't be placed at the door of the tyre then no reason why Michelin should pay. Likewise for the wheel with Piaggio. Your dealer should have stepped up, given an informed absolute diagnosis and got one or the other (depending on fault) to cough up. I can be very certain that I wouldn't have had to pay should that have happened to me, even if my dealer had to swallow the cost of a new tyre himself.

Look out for it again on the same wheel, there have been some examples of poor paint finish on some wheels that lead to slow leaks on many Piaggio models. If it does happen again, get a new wheel[1] and the original cost re-imbursed to boot.

[1] Just cleaning/burnishing the bead surface of the wheel is often enough. I'd suspect a wheel fault, and that the original tyre was just fine.

I love my MP3, but reailize that rear tire wear is an issue. I bought a mini-tire changer from Harbor Freight & Tools and a Marc Parnes balancer. I found a very inexpensive source of Michelin & Pirelli tires at www.americanmototire.com.

Now, I can perform a tire change and balance for the mere price of the tires and a little of my time. I did both my fronts in about 1 1/2 hours, beginning to end, and my tires only ran me $41/ea delivered to my house. The rear Michelin Pilot Sport SC is less then $40+shipping. With those kind of prices, I can live with and still enjoy my MP3.

Thanks all,

So far it seems one difference between an MP3 and other 2 wheelers (motorcycles) is that there is more tire wear on the MP3 and therefore more upkeep costs.

I guess I have also thought that maybe as the tires are bigger on motorcycles that the high speed ride (55 - 70) on divided hyways would be smoother as these small tires on the scooter do not absorb much in bumps and ruts. Is that the case. Keep in mind I have never ridden a full sized motorcycle, so I have no point of comparison.

Are there other advantages/dsiadvantages to owning an MP3 over a motorcycle?

Thanks again,

David

Only the 250 with the small rear wheel seems to have tyre wear problems. Now it's getting a 14" wheel that should cure that for good[1]. Whether this is a possible mod for earlier models is not known yet - I suspect it wouldn't be simple, but it just might be...

[1] As a base-point, the X9 250 with 14" rears always had *longer lasting* tyres than the 500, rather than the other way round with the current MP3 sizes. We'll find out in a few weeks.

I anxiously await.

Captain John,

I am curious to see what it cost in labor and tire for Emptynest to get the tire changed at the dealer. It looks like it only costs you $150 for the changer and balancer. Did you have to bolt the changer to the floor to get enough muscle torque to break the bead? Do you use a torque wrench on the wheel lug nuts when putting it back on?

I guess different vehicles have different up-keep costs. If you want a different kind of car, you get used to paying the parts replacement cost for that vehicle. I know that an old Mercedes my wife got years ago was fun for her to have BUT cost an arm and a leg to repair...a lot more than my Chevy, which I could do myself in most cases.

David

I see your point David, but when I purchased a scooter, one of the factors in making my decision was cost in up keep. Sure, fun has a lot to do with it, but if maintaining the scooter will outway the fuel savings, then where do I justify the purchase?

There are unexpected occurrences that will dig into you wallet one way or another, but tires??? That's not part of the deal.

As of yet, still waiting for my dealer to call me that the tire has arrived.

David:

I actually paid less for the changer, because it was on sale for 40% off at Harbor... Having 2 MP3's helped justify the purchase. I don't have a workbench in the garage; so, I wedged the tire changer in my "WorkMate" bench, and it seemed to work just fine.

When I had my rear tire changed (before I bought my own equipment), I removed the wheel from my scooter, purchased the tire at the dealer and had them install it. The price was about $90. It was at that time that I decided it would be way cheaper to buy my own equipment to do the job, considering how often I would have to change tires. Yes, I do use a torque wrench to tighten the wheels.

I do an initial torque of the wheels and then, again, after I take a short ride to make sure the torque specs remain constant.

As it relates to my original question, are scooters, in general, cheaper to upkeep compared to motorcycles, other than this tire wear thing we are discussing? Getting 60 or so mpg is certainly going to save a lot of money, but are there other dynamics ie: performance, comfort, riding characteristics, which distinctly separate MP3's from more traditional MC's.

Are there any of you out there who would go back to MC's after now owning an MP3.

Thanks,

David

I'm interested in this myself - hadn't thought it would actually be affordable. Which balancer did you get - the one for Vespa? Got a part # for the tire changer?

I bought the "Marc Parnes" balancer for the Vespa GTS:

http://www.marcparnes.com/Vespa_Scooter_Wheel_Balancer.htm

I"m not going back to a motorcycle. In fact, I've owned over 40 bikes over the past 50 years, and find the MP3 more comfortable and better handling then most of the bikes I've owned. Seating position is a little cramped for my 6'3" frame, but that can be cured with a different seat.

That's what I've been looking for. A former MC'er point of view. I'm getting such a kick (other than riding in the rain) out of not being in a "cage" that I am looking forward already to a more improved MP3 to buy, maybe with a bigger motor (and rear wheel.) BUT...thought I might be regreting never having owned a traditional MC such as a BMW 1200 LT or a Goldwing for cruising with my sweetie.

Anyone unhappy with the conversion from MC, other than those with mechanical lemons or better yet what makes it so much better than the MC's they have owned, like comfort.

David

Got my new rear tire today and here's the damage:

Tire - Mich. 130/70-12 = $110.00
Labor ------------------ = 85.00
6% sales tax ------------= 11.70

total = 206.70

Reading previous posts, I would say that this price will vary depending on where you live.

I have a friend I work with that rides a custom built chopper, and he says he get the same kind of mileage on his rear tire, because he opts for a softier/stickier tire. You can probably find a harder tire in the same dimensions of the Michelin you bought, but you will likely not have the control you do with the Michelin tire. Stability at the cost of tread longivity. I guess its personal choice? I'd say the physics of his chopper and the MP3 are a bit different. The fact that both rear tires have a common lifecycle tells me maybe there's something to the hardness or softness of the rubber...

Wow! I recently had the rear tire issue and had to search desperately for a new one. Luckily, I found a motorcycle shop with one Pirelli in that was about 50 miles away. I trailered my bike there and got a new one:
Tire -$42
Labor-$32
Tax - 9%
Total=90ish bux(had a $6 bay charge or somethere abouts)
Still, that's half of what Emptynest paid. My advice would be to do what I plan on doing Empty, I learned my lesson, paid for the first tire, which in honesty is about the cost of buying one really nice car tire, and now I plan on buying the Harbor Freight Changer, tire bar, and ordering 2-3 rear tires which I can find online for $30-50max and in several styles(including white walls - woot!). This will all cost me under 200-250$ and will set me up for most of the year and now tires will cost me 30-50 and I can have them on the same day i suspect a rear tire problem. Considering that my mp3 is saving me about 10$ A DAY IN GAS, I'll recoup my whole year's tires and equipment within one month....so smile

You have a plan Luthor, and it's a good one, but my intentions are to upgrade to a 400 and they have 14" tires so hopefully those will last longer.

Toupeiro: The guy who did the work rides a big Harley and he mentioned the same thing you did about their tires wearing out at about 4,000 or 5,000 miles.

Yet, the gentleman who rode from Canada to Florida and back racked up 11,000 miles on his Majesty. He's changing his tires now but look at what he accomplished.

Forgive me if I'm prying, but what do you predict will be the process for 'upgrading'? I'm assuming you bought yours from a Vespa/Piaggio dealer like myself? I've thought about upgrading to the 500, but have no clue at what something like that might entail.

You'll lose the inevitable 'out the door' depreciation, about GBP750 here, say USD1500.

And with some miles (and mods!) say a hit of USD2500 assuming it is otherwise still mint and low mileage.

That's why I waited...

Thanks, Jim. Yeah, I figured it would be a big hit. Plus, too be blunt, if I make a list of possible tire problem originators it looks something like this:

Me:
I weigh 250+lbs
I drive about 80% highway
I drive at 65+speeds 75% of the time
I just found out today that my rear shocks were at preset 1 for light riders with no cargo
I normally carry bout 30 lbs of cargo (and I'm not light)

The tire:
I didn't need to check/fix/repair it prior to 3K mileage
A replacement of better quality than the original cost me $42
I found out I can put on a new tire, rim and all, myself for about 100$ in startup equipment and then just the cost of a new tire.

So all in all, I believe I'll be keeping my current moto. If the only thing I have to worry bout is making sure to feed it a fresh rear tire every 2 months or so, then so be it.

Get your shocks up to preset #3, tyre pressure to 2PSI above manual quoted, and you may find it'll last longer!

Also, only accelerate from a standstill with WOT when you really want to - the rest of the time just take it easy - it's acceleration that shags a rear tyre, braking shags the front(s).

Funny you mention that, I just set my preset up to #3 this afternoon. I'll definitely take your advice on the new tire as far as WOT from starts. Hope the preset 3 feels better, goin on a ride tomorrow with it. As far as tires, do you have any recommendations for the 12" rear as far as brand, what to look for in a good all weather, hope it lasts longer than 3k, tire?

Oh, and btw, so you're saying I should go for 28 and 33 psi respectively?

From what you say about weight etc, I'd go for 26/35, but once in the right ball-park it is very much a personal thing. I like my shocks not too hard, but my tyre pressures up a bit for road use. If I know I'm going for a hard fast ride, I'll up the shocks and reduce tyre pressure a tad. You've got to find your own sweet-spot, and frankly I wouldn't worry too much about it.

You'll feel when it's wrong, you won't notice when it's right.

on Ebay: item number 110218881206

Luthor, you work at Best Buy or just a fan?

lol. I got a lot of compliments for my shirt, its one of my favs. Look real close, it doesn't say "Best Buy", it says "Broke Guy".

When you get the tire changing equipment and try it out make sure you let us know how well it works. Did you go with the 140/70X12 rear tire? What brand did you get.

Well, I had to go with what they had because it was the only one in my area. It was a 130/70-12 Pirelli SL26. Costs about 42$. You can find them online for around 38$, so the dealer really isn't making a killing off these tires, which is what I'd heard. Good dealer imho. Now that I'm good for awhile, gonna research and look for a few brands to order. Probably gonna start off with 3 different types. As I change tires, I'll sorta figure out which one suits me best and rides best and then that'll be my permanent ordering one.

Hey, did you already boughty the mounting/change tire equipment? I am curious! I want to change my tires in the future too!

If you did! Let us know on the links/part #'s. Thanks man!

I will. You know me and tutorials . I'll make sure to put a Dummie's guide for changing your own tires on here(for the biggest dummy: me .