Modern Vespa

I've put around 5300 miles on the LX, enjoying every moment of it, but I'm thinking I need a little more power. I took the scoot out on the interstate and pined the throttle. This saw my speed vary from anywhere between 45 and 73. It only gets scary when you drop down to 45! I'm thinking about the Malossi 187 kit with some sort of pipe. I don't want the thing to shoot out from under me, but I'd like to maybe hold 60 MPH (or even 55). I'm also concerned about gas mileage. I'm currently getting a very consistent 66 mpg.

I've searched the forums and not seen anything related to gas mileage. If someone could speak to that that would be awesome. Also, if anyone can talk about what sort of speeds they can hold with the kit that would be great too.

Thanks!

--doug

Hi Doug,

I haven't done the upgrade yet, so I can't answer your questions. I am planning on doing the swap over the winter on my LX for mostly the same reasons as you. I don't necessarily want to go *faster*, just be able to maintain speed irrespective of terrain or wind.

My *guess* is that if you don't use the full power all the time, your mileage should remain similar (63 MPG+ here over 2100 miles.) With more torque, you shouldn't need to open the throttle as much to get to speed. Once at speed, it should require only slightly more fuel to maintain speed. And since the motor isn't working as hard to maintain speed in windy or hilly conditions, I think the MPG should be slightly better in those circumstances.

Of course I'm only guessing, but using my trucks as an example. My 2.9L truck worked hard to maintain highway speeds and got an average of 17-18 MPG over a 10 year span. My 4.6L truck, while both larger and heavier, worked much less to maintain speed, running at only 1600 RPM at 65 MPH, and got an average of 16-17 MPG over a 7 year span. Yes, I know gearing, etc, was different, but the underlying logic still seems solid to me.

I know there are a couple of guys here who've done the upgrade, so maybe they'll chime in with real-world numbers. I'm keeping really accurate records, so I'll be able to tell if there is a jump after the conversion and break-in.

HTH,
Steve

The gas mileage doesn't drop much unless you are really on the throttle all the time. One of the things to remember and understand, is that the carb and usually the main jet doesn't change. Gas mileage is mostly lost when the carb gets larger or upjetted. There may be a slight difference, but not a huge one.

@Max : Do you have to change the jetting when using such a kit?

Thanks for the replies! Sounds like I should not worry about the gas mileage. Any ideas on the speed thing? I'm about 200 lb and if I could not drop below 55/60 on the highway that would be pretty awesome. Also, based on Steve's explanation, it sounds like I would not be incuring more wear and tear on the engine?

If I could get and hold an extra 5-10 MPH with this upgrade then I'd do it.

I'm trying to pick stuff that will give me the biggest bang without going too overboard.

Thanks again!

--doug

WE used to change jetting which is a very common practice when allowing the engine to breathe better, but after doing about 40 of these installs, we slowly realized they just ran better with stock jetting.

The malossi 187 kit improves power greatly, but not top speed so much. It will be much easier to hold 55-60mph, but due to gearing, won't get you much over 70mph top speed in optimum conditions. So yes, I think this setup will help your situation greatly.

I have rejetted my ET4 with the 190 kit. Napacoach can vouch for how fast it is. It just depends on what you are looking for. When I was heavier, 245 lbs., I could ride it at 65 mph all day on flat ground. I'm only 190 lbs now and I can hit around 80 mph on it. It screams, maintainance is key.

OMG... Imagine what I can do with my measly little 140lbs...

I gotta look into this!!!

-Rick

Try a GTS Traum...(120 lbs... )

Awesome. I'm going to go for it. Does it make sense to do the pipe too at the same time? I prefer a stock look. Would the Sito Plus work?

--doug

The sito+ does help the 190 kit breathe better, and looks stock. I have the 190 kit on sale for $399, and the Sito+ on sale for $169. You might also consider a Kevlar belt to take the extra stress.

I have the Sito+ also. Excellent combination.

Couple of quick questions (always more questions!)

I've seen some discussion on the kevlar belt thing. It is something that I'd really need with the 187 kit?

Also, I really like the sounds of my LX. I'm wondering to what extent the Sito Plus would change that? And do I need that to take advantage of the 187?

Many thanks!

--doug

I like these questions and answer sessions I am learning alot, If I could take my LX on the highway, I could curb the cage probably 95% of the time, except for when i am hauling big stuff.

I have been window shopping for a GT or GTS If I could get 70-75 out of my LX i would love to keep it, I just wonder if on highway, with Oklahoma wind and crazy drivers if the heavier bike of a GT GTS would be the way to go?


scott

My ET4 had very minimal sound change when I put the kit and pipe on. I am still running the stock belt.... maybe I should change it.

The Sito+ sounds very close to stock. After a while it gets just a hair louder. As far as belts go, some people's stock belts break shortly after installing the kits, and some people's just keep on going. Malossi recommends doing the Kevlar belt to hold up to the additional load. We do them, but I can't argue with results. The kevlar belts seem to be necessary on tuned 50cc's, recommended on tuned 150cc's and optional on the 200/250cc's.

Thanks for the great responses. I thought of another question or two unfortunately! heh.

I was reading one of the other threads and learned that the LX exhaust is catalyzed more than the ET series. Not sure if this is true or not, but I am pretty concerned about the environmental impact or what I do (but I still might want to go faster.) Would the Sitto Plus have my exhaust catalyzed less than the stock pipe?

Also, when I hear that the Sitto will help the larger cylinder breath, I have this vision of a coughing sputtering cylinder with the stock pipe. Is this really an issue?

Right now I'm sure want the 187(190) kit and the kevlar belt. Just trying to decide on the exhaust.

Thanks again for your thoughtful replies. I'm getting pretty excited about having his done. I'll get a faster scoot, but it'll still be my faithful scoot.

--doug

I dunno this for sure, but it seems unlikely that the Sitto exhaust would have the same catalyzer coating that is present in the stock exhaust. Exhaust catalzyer material / coatings are generally pretty expensive because they contain rare / expensive metals that are needed for the catalyzation process. OE products need to have that to conform to EPA standards, but aftermarket products can probably get away with it by designating itself as "off road use only".

-Rick

just wondering if this all went ahead, also has anyone any info on replacing the autmatic choke on a piaggio 4t leader motor ( its from a skipper st) with a manual one

Its a small engine anyhow you look at it so mpg wont be a big deal, you will notice the upgrade on the well... uphill, definately more mid range punch, a friend of mine has it in her ET4 and is very happy.